Was the sixteenth amendment ever properly ratified?
I am certainly not going to be dogmatic, but this is an interesting study.
Please don't bother calling me a "tax protester". I'm not. I am just looking for the truth :-)

-Robur

Sites:
http://thelawthatneverwas.com
http://freedomtofascism.com

Articles:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17398
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a39335e580ae4.htm
http://political-resources.com/taxes/16thamendment/default.htm
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24154

Videos:
http://freehovind.com/watch-id-%2d4312730277175242198

Rebuttals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

GO ROBUR

We are big Hovind Fans.  How come no one like Bill Benson stepped in to help Hovind and blow the lid off this sham?

Wow... You are quick to pick up on these things :-)

I don't want to offend anyone here - but if you already are a Hovind fan - you might enjoy a website I have been working on: FreeHovind.com

I released a petition about 4 days ago and it already has nearly 100 signatures!

-Robur

Can someone cut through the Kent Hovind haze and break it down for me in simple terms? I need an explanation of why he's had so many run-ins with law enforcement.

Reading the petition and attached exhibits will get you fairly up to speed... Dedicating 2 hours to watching "Freedom to Fascism" will give you the "big picture".

From Hovind's position, the reason he has had "so many run-ins with law enforcement" is that the laws they are enforcing are unconstitutional :-)

-Robur

I'll check out your site Robur...it looks cool!

robur:

From Hovind's position, the reason he has had "so many run-ins with law enforcement" is that the laws they are enforcing are unconstitutional :-)

-Robur

Apparently I have no answers and only questions today which is rare. We can break laws if they're unconstitutional?

Of course - for unconstitutional laws are not laws at all!
This applies to enforcing laws as well. The soldiers who were "just following orders"when they illegaly seized the weapons owned by katrina survivors and left them at the mercy of looters are morally responsible for their actions.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutionality
"The legal encyclopedia American Jurisprudence says the following in regard to constitutionality: The general rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and the name of law, is in reality no law, but is wholly void and ineffective for any purpose since unconstitutionality dates from the time of its enactment and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it; an unconstitutional law, in legal contemplation, is as inoperative as if it had never been passed ... An unconstitutional law is void. (16 Am. Jur. 2d, Sec. 178)"

-Robur

Who would have ever known that I would have learned SO MUCH from a forum?!!?:):):)

How about the command of Christ? would that be a law? something we must do?

Dr. Hovind, a great teacher and apologetics defender, violated a command of Christ, "render unto ceasar that which is ceasar..." the very context of this scripture deals with paying taxes to a government who's law changed constantly and often time with out due process, yet Jesus still commanded to give to the government what is the government.  The last time I checked, US currency had the following words "federal reserve note United States of America" this is the money of the government not Dr. Hovind's.

Yes, but that note represents money that he EARNED. It no longer belongs to the government. We should render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's but what if Caesar demands something from you that does not belong to him? Yielding would be like just giving what you have to a thief who breaks into your house. The same could apply to children. The government would love it if we would let them take our children in addition to our money! And they've already started demanding that we do so. I think that we should pay taxes, but they should be voluntary. No one should be forced by the government to hand over half their income or more!

Istvan;

What if the mafia told you to pay it taxes? Would you? If you did out of fear of your life, would it be because of the Bible's commandment to pay our taxes to "Caesar"? If someone you knew had the courage to refuse to pay taxes to the mafia and misteriously dissappeared the next day, would you feel it "served them right" because they didn't "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's?

The obvious answer to all these questions is no! The mafia is not Caesar.
Neither is the IRS. Their actions are completley illegal and violate our legal government's Constitution.

In my opinion, a personal decision to pay taxes  to the IRS or not, is based on a courage to stand for American principles - or a lack thereof, as opposed to a Biblical commandment to "Render unto caesar what is Caesar's".

Similarly, I don't see how supporting someone who has been jailed by the "mafia" is unbiblical either.

I am aware that the money the "federal" reserve creates is not legal tender, and everyone would be much better off owning gold coins, but the main issue with Hovind was that he was supposeldy not "witholding" taxes for the IRS from the money he was paying people who helped him with his ministry. This is another interesting point, as the constitutional definition of "income" is based on profit and gain for a corporation - and not a personal exchange of time for compensation - which means that the IRS had NO CLAIM WHATSOEVER to require Hovind to withold money for them.

Just like the mafia, they IRS relies on threats and intimidation to illegaly steal money from all of us :-)

-Robur

Istvan:

How about the command of Christ? would that be a law? something we must do?

Dr. Hovind, a great teacher and apologetics defender, violated a command of Christ, "render unto ceasar that which is ceasar..." the very context of this scripture deals with paying taxes to a government who's law changed constantly and often time with out due process, yet Jesus still commanded to give to the government what is the government.  The last time I checked, US currency had the following words "federal reserve note United States of America" this is the money of the government not Dr. Hovind's.

"Render unto ceasar what is ceasar's" Mr. Istvan, this is true, after all Jesus said it. However, as I have said before, the Constitution is the supreme law of the land. In the Constitution, the tenth ammendment states that "All powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, not prohibited by it to the States are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." If you can show me somewhere in the Constitution where it gives the United States the power to establish a Federal Reserve Bank (It is nowhere to be found, trust me) or where it gives the United States the power to print a fiat monetary bill, with nothing to back it (nowhere there either), or a Gestapo like institution that can throw you in prison if you don't give the Empire it's due, then I will tell you it is good and right to pay taxes to the Federal Government, if not, then it isn't. Sometimes to obey the law, you have to break an un-Constitutional law. If a law violates the Constitution, it is not law.

This is my opinion.

Like usuall, State Sovereignty is the answer to practically any Constitutional argument, as the Founders intended.

Robur, and Lady Abigail,

Who held the coins when Jesus asked show me the tribute?  It was not Caesar? Christ still said what he said, and it still applies today, does it not. 

I am very familure with Dr. Hovind's dealings with the IRS (they are not the mafia) and the way he hired/payed family to run the "Ministry."

The Mafia will break your legs, the IRS will apply the law. There is a huge difference.