Ron Paul

Last post 02-14-2008 7:51 PM by WesleySonofCornelius. 31 replies.
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  • 02-04-2008 1:04 PM

    Ron Paul

    It's been a while since I've checked in here.  I hope everyone is doing well.

    Here’s an article I’ve written on our blog about Ron Paul.  I’ve been meaning to do this for a while but am just now getting around to it.

    Why Christians Shouldn't Vote for Ron Paul

     Feel free to comment. 

    I just posted this on the Jamestown Treasure Hunt section and realized that everyone is over hereSmile

    Joseph Weathers

    “Perseverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.”
    ~ George Washington
    • Post Points: 25
  • 02-04-2008 3:56 PM In reply to

    Re: Ron Paul

    Which is worse: chattel slavery or abortion?

    B8

    The existence of God is proven by the impossibility of the opposite. GB
    • Post Points: 35
  • 02-04-2008 4:53 PM In reply to

    Re: Ron Paul

    I can understand where y'all are coming from on this, but I don't really agree. (Look to "Abortion and the elections" where I posted a bit on this topic) Ron Paul is not for abortion! He simply stands for a state amendment (Which is much more likely, and will work better anyway), not a Federal Amendment!

    Besides, who will you vote for? Huckebee? McCain? Hillary? ;)

    It is not as if Ron Paul comes into office, the killings on innocent babes will increase. With Huckebee, he may say he will ban them while campaigning,and then "See the light!" As he has done in so many other cases. We will never see a perfect candidate. We must all face the facts. I am as much pro-life as the rest of y'all. I believe that it is against all Biblical, Moral, and Natural reasoning, and is a sin against God! But, it does not require a Federal amendment. Did you know, that the Federal government is not supposed to touch an individual citizen's life? That it is to control the States (In some matters), and the States to govern the people. The more localized the government, the more consistent and reliable it will be.

     I have been long-winded again. :/ Sorry ya'll! :)

    ~Sarah~

    Way down upon the Swanee River,
    Far, far away...

    • Post Points: 45
  • 02-04-2008 6:54 PM In reply to

    Re: Ron Paul

    In my opinion, all the candidates that remain are pathatic.  Yet remember that we currently have a Democrat majority in Congress.  For the sake of a balance of power, I believe the Christians are going to have to place their support behind a realistic Republican candidate.  Sadly, that looks like McCain right now.  *Sigh*  Unfortunately, McCain often looks like a Democrat. *Sigh* again.  Jesus still sits on the throne. Now a *sigh* of relief.

    • Post Points: 15
  • 02-04-2008 6:55 PM In reply to

    Re: Ron Paul

    Bahnsen8, I’m not exactly sure what you mean by ‘chattel slavery’, but I assume you are meaning out of control taxes.  If that is what you mean, then yes, abortion is worse.  There are greater and lesser sins, and murder is a greater sin than exorbitant taxes by an ungodly Congress/government. 
    Joseph Weathers

    “Perseverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.”
    ~ George Washington
    • Post Points: 25
  • 02-04-2008 6:56 PM In reply to

    Re: Ron Paul

    Sarah, I haven’t said that Ron Paul is personally for abortion, but neither is Jimmy Carter!  If he is truly pro-life, then how can he refuse to call abortion murder? (See John Stossel’s interview with Ron Paul)   

    As to who to vote for, if you don’t believe in voting for the lesser of two evils, then your argument isn’t valid.  If you do believe in voting for the lesser of two evils, then the 2 best options are Huckabee or Romney (both of whom I have great concerns about).
     

    If abortion shouldn’t be against federal law, then why should murder be against federal law?  And if not murder, why not euthanasia?  If euthanasia is left for the states to decide, then before you get to be in your 70’s and 80’s you better move to a state that does ban it. Because inevitably there will be states that do not ban it, and if you live in one of those states, you could be starved to death because someone thinks that you don’t have a quality of life worth living.   
     

    I believe in states rights (i.e. federalism), but there are rights that the federal government has the duty to protect.  As I said in my
    article, one of the reasons the founders stated for writing the U.S. Constitution was to “secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.”  If innocent life is not protected, then the blessings of liberty cannot be secured for our posterity. 

    I’ll just respond here to some of the things you mentioned in your post on “Abortion and the Election” rather than doing 2 separate posts.
     

    Just because federal agents mess things up sometimes when dealing with drug raids etcetera, doesn’t mean we should just legalize illegal drugs.  That doesn’t fix the problem, it just ignores it.  If you allow it to be decided by the counties, then there will be counties that don’t ban illegal drugs, and so the drug dealers will just move across the county line and set up operations there.  So then there would be even more drugs in the country, because drug dealers won’t be restrained at all in those counties that don’t ban it.   
     

    We don’t have to give the federal government the authority to ban abortion; it already has that authority.  And that does not give them the authority to endorse it, any more than their authority to ban murder gives them the authority to endorse murder.  
     

    This ended up longer than I planned on, but I think this is a really important issue to consider.

     

    Joseph Weathers

    “Perseverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.”
    ~ George Washington
    • Post Points: 25
  • 02-05-2008 7:43 AM In reply to

    Re: Ron Paul

    Persevering:
    Sarah, I haven’t said that Ron Paul is personally for abortion, but neither is Jimmy Carter!  If he is truly pro-life, then how can he refuse to call abortion murder? (See John Stossel’s interview with Ron Paul)   

    As to who to vote for, if you don’t believe in voting for the lesser of two evils, then your argument isn’t valid.  If you do believe in voting for the lesser of two evils, then the 2 best options are Huckabee or Romney (both of whom I have great concerns about).
     

    If abortion shouldn’t be against federal law, then why should murder be against federal law?  And if not murder, why not euthanasia?  If euthanasia is left for the states to decide, then before you get to be in your 70’s and 80’s you better move to a state that does ban it. Because inevitably there will be states that do not ban it, and if you live in one of those states, you could be starved to death because someone thinks that you don’t have a quality of life worth living.   
     

    I believe in states rights (i.e. federalism), but there are rights that the federal government has the duty to protect.  As I said in my
    article, one of the reasons the founders stated for writing the U.S. Constitution was to “secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.”  If innocent life is not protected, then the blessings of liberty cannot be secured for our posterity. 

    I’ll just respond here to some of the things you mentioned in your post on “Abortion and the Election” rather than doing 2 separate posts.
     

    Just because federal agents mess things up sometimes when dealing with drug raids etcetera, doesn’t mean we should just legalize illegal drugs.  That doesn’t fix the problem, it just ignores it.  If you allow it to be decided by the counties, then there will be counties that don’t ban illegal drugs, and so the drug dealers will just move across the county line and set up operations there.  So then there would be even more drugs in the country, because drug dealers won’t be restrained at all in those counties that don’t ban it.   
     

    We don’t have to give the federal government the authority to ban abortion; it already has that authority.  And that does not give them the authority to endorse it, any more than their authority to ban murder gives them the authority to endorse murder.  
     

    This ended up longer than I planned on, but I think this is a really important issue to consider.

     

    Yes, it is an important issue, and one that I am afraid will be a dividing point in many Christian circles as the election nears.

     I confess, I do not know why he would say that it is not murder, for it surely is. He has stated clearly that life begins at conception. I'll have to look into it. I just watched the actual live interview, and did not hear him say anything about abortion.... Maybe I missed it. I'll check again later. :)

    What would happen if some counties had drug laws and some did not? Yes, the drug dealers would move to a different county. There would be counties where "Those people" lived. If they were caught in our county, they would be punished. You can not make a morel issue legal or not! The Federal government has bo right telling us what we are or are not to do with our own bodies. If you are saying taht, then it has the right to say that I will someday have to give my child shots. "Because it will protect them" You open up a huge book that would be very hard to close. Does drug use affect anyone but the drug user? (Besides his family. Or possibly DUI, which is punished) Then why should it be banned? Some drugs that are illegal could be used for good purposes. It is God's Creation, and has a useful purpose.

    After I posted yesterday, I had thought of the fact that, for some voting for Ron Paul would be voting for the lesser of 2 evils. Therefore, as you say, my reasoning does not have any validity. :)

    No-the Federal government does not have the right to punish murder. There should be no Federal death penalty. That is reserved for the state.

    As for euthanasia, when we get to that point (Which I know is coming on very rapidly) we are at the point of Nazi Germany. I have no answer for you on that right now, as just today I learned what it was. :) (Yes, I am slightly naive)

    Huckabee is not an option. If Huckebee gets in, he will be going down the exact same path that Bush is. In a few years, our "Free" country will be turned over to the UN (Who is not Pro-Life for sure!) and we will have a world government. McCain is not an option either. If he can not run his own family, how on earth does he expect to run a nation?

    Honestly, we should be more concerned about what Senators and Respresentatives get in, than the President. Just a 2/3 vote can pass. :)

    The pro-life issue is a very hard one, because the Constitution is made only for a moral and religious people. The world we live in is surely not a morla and religious people! Our nation is so far from where our Founding Fathers meant it to be, and from where God would be pleased with it, that it is no wonder things come to such a point. Though we all may not agree on all things, the remnant of God's people that are left must continue on the straight and narrow. The only chance for our country is for the families, and the churches to be rebuilt! Revolution must start from the inside. Strengthen your own families, that they may endure the hard times that are inevitably coming. (I am not nescessarily speaking about the end times) And that they will be a light to a dark world.

    ~Sarah~

    Way down upon the Swanee River,
    Far, far away...

    • Post Points: 25
  • 02-05-2008 12:07 PM In reply to

    Re: Ron Paul

    Persevering:
    Bahnsen8, I’m not exactly sure what you mean by ‘chattel slavery’, but I assume you are meaning out of control taxes.  If that is what you mean, then yes, abortion is worse.  There are greater and lesser sins, and murder is a greater sin than exorbitant taxes by an ungodly Congress/government. 

    Uh, no, look here: http://www.iabolish.org/slavery_today/primer/types.html

    Now, which is worse: chattel slavery or abortion?

    B8

     

    The existence of God is proven by the impossibility of the opposite. GB
    • Post Points: 35
  • 02-05-2008 1:23 PM In reply to

    Re: Ron Paul

     I wrote up a reply to your post yesterday, but I don't know if I'll be able to get it typed up or not.

    I had to comment thought that we have no Federal ban on murder except on Federal property (Post Offices, the White House, etc.). 

    LAAIW#%%3@

    www.ladyabigail90.blogspot.com
    www.youtube.com/LadyAbigail90
    • Post Points: 15
  • 02-05-2008 3:10 PM In reply to

    Re: Ron Paul

    Bahnsen8,

    Well, both of them are heinous crimes against man and God.  Which is worse?  That's a hard question, but I still have to say that abortion is worse, since it is the killing of an innocent life.  But that doesn't at all negate the wickedness of chattel slavery. 

    To sum it up, abortion is worse than chattel slavery, and both of them are great evils which shouldn't be permitted in this country.
     

    P.S. 'Amazing Grace' is a really good movie about William Wilberforce and his struggle against slavery in England during the late 17th century.  I really recommend watching it.
    Joseph Weathers

    “Perseverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.”
    ~ George Washington
    Filed under: ,
    • Post Points: 35
  • 02-05-2008 3:49 PM In reply to

    Re: Ron Paul

    A video I created a while ago about Ron Paul: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhRjuFry2dE

     

    Why everyone should vote for Ron Paul:

    1. Ron Paul is Pro Life.

    2. Ron Paul, unlike most of the other candidates, has a stellar record.

      • While most candidates have been restricting homeschoolers and raising taxes as governor of Arkansas, fighting to eliminate the second amendment, or harming Americans some other way, Ron Paul has been a lone voice in congress for over ten years - voting against unconstitutional legislation so consistently that he is known as "Dr No".


    3. Ron Paul, unlike all the other candidates, is Pro Constitution.

      • Please visit a site I am working on - the Presidential Candidates Comparison Matrix.
        You will find that Ron Paul leaves all the other candidates in the dust when it comes to Constitutional answers for the issues America is facing.
        On every issue - from abolishing the IRS, ending the federal reserve's monopoly on money, eliminating ridiculous bureaucracies like the department of homeland security, providing America with a sane, moral, "just war" foreign policy, and beginning to fix America's educational system by annihilating the federal department of education and encouraging homeschooling - Ron Paul is Right-On.


    4. Every single other candidate supports at least one of the following:

      • Murdering innocent unborn children
      • Unconstitutional socialistic government-will-take care of you programs and other nonsense
      • Insane, unbiblical, unconstitutional, uncongressionalydeclared, preemptive war with other sovereign nations

     

    This presidential election, you don't have to vote for "the lesser of two evils":
    You can vote for Ron Paul.

    Make your vote count!

    -Aubrey

     

    P.S. Can't wait to see Abagail's reply! I wrote this one as fast as possible to get it up, but it is really only superficial. Each issue could use much more discussion.

    P.S.S. Looks like the forum stylesheet messed up my formatting...
    Zach {and whoever else is in charge}: Great job on the new latest (How time flies :-) forum design, but please - just because I inserted a <h2> doesn't mean I want the super cool shiny header graphic behind it. Same thing with all the grey horizontal lines under my <li> tags ;-) Why is the <h1> tag relatively small and grey? If I remember correctly, tahe TinyMCE WYSIWYG editor you are using in the forum has a configuration preference for an editor stylesheet file - it might be a good idea to include one so people can have fair warning before their beautifully formatted posts are messed up on submit :-)

    AubreyFalconer.com - Aubrey's fundamental law of efficiency: Productivity = Cumulative Talent / involved personnel
    • Post Points: 15
  • 02-05-2008 5:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Ron Paul

    Myself400:
    “You can not make a morel issue legal or not!”
     Well then it can’t be left to the states either.  But in 1824, the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania listed the following things as crimes:
    1. Deny the Being and Providence of God
    2. Contumelious reproaches of Jesus Christ…
    3. Certain immoralities tending to subvert all religion and morality, which are the foundations of all governments
    This is certainly making a “moral issue legal or not”.  And there are innumerable instances of similar ruling and legislation by states during the late 18th and early 19th centuries.  Also, it wasn’t just the states that made moral issues ‘legal or not’.  In 1782 Congress approved the printing of an English edition of the Bible… with federal tax dollars!  Isn’t that making a moral issue legal, by forcing taxpayers to fund the printing of a Bible?   Every law in this country is a moral law; whether it’s taxes, murder, theft, libel, treason, etc.  Why is murder wrong?  Because the Word of God says it is.  Morality is the foundation for all laws; it is either the morality of the Bible, or the ‘morality’ thought up by man.  Without the Word of God, all things are relative, and there are no absolutes. 
    Myself400:
    The Federal government has bo right telling us what we are or are not to do with our own bodies.” 
     Then I assume you agree with Ron Paul that prostitution, homosexuality, pornography, etc. should be legal.  But that argument also has to mean that the state government doesn’t have the authority to pass laws concerning morality.  So the both the federal and state governments cannot “make a moral issue legal or not!” 
    Myself400:
    As for euthanasia, when we get to that point (Which I know is coming on very rapidly) we are at the point of Nazi Germany.” 
     Sadly, we have already reached that point.  Look at the case of Terri Schiavo and the heinous starvation to death by her husband, against the wishes of her other immediate family members. 
    Myself400:
    “The only chance for our country is for the families, and the churches to be rebuilt! Revolution must start from the inside.”
     I agree with you, our only chance for a long-term restoration of Christian principles and a Christian republic is for a revival in the hearts of families and churches in throughout America.  Sadly, many people who are in the mainstream churches of today have no more of a Biblical worldview then non-Christians.  Take for instance the “New Baptist Covenant Celebration” last week here in Atlanta.  Headed up by Jimmy Carter, it’s a new association of liberal Baptist churches in America that are trying to “unify the church”, with Al Gore speaking at the conference on “protecting God’s green Earth”.  (Here’s a great article by Gary DeMar on the subject: Pursuing Unity in Untruth). As Thomas Jefferson said: “Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?  That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just:  that his justice cannot sleep for ever."
    Joseph Weathers

    “Perseverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.”
    ~ George Washington
    • Post Points: 25
  • 02-05-2008 7:31 PM In reply to

    Re: Ron Paul

    Myself400:

    I can understand where y'all are coming from on this, but I don't really agree. (Look to "Abortion and the elections" where I posted a bit on this topic) Ron Paul is not for abortion! He simply stands for a state amendment (Which is much more likely, and will work better anyway), not a Federal Amendment!

    Besides, who will you vote for? Huckebee? McCain? Hillary? ;)

    It is not as if Ron Paul comes into office, the killings on innocent babes will increase. With Huckebee, he may say he will ban them while campaigning,and then "See the light!" As he has done in so many other cases. We will never see a perfect candidate. We must all face the facts. I am as much pro-life as the rest of y'all. I believe that it is against all Biblical, Moral, and Natural reasoning, and is a sin against God! But, it does not require a Federal amendment. Did you know, that the Federal government is not supposed to touch an individual citizen's life? That it is to control the States (In some matters), and the States to govern the people. The more localized the government, the more consistent and reliable it will be.

     I have been long-winded again. :/ Sorry ya'll! :)

    ~Sarah~

     

    Sarah in what instance has Huckabee said that he would do something and then "see the light" I have never heard of an instance. Unfortunately for Ron Paul, America is so governed by laws and amendments that the only way to outlaw wrong practices is to make laws against them, or make amendments. America will never go back to days of the Founding Fathers. Huckabee sees the only way of protecting babies and God ordained marriage is to make amendments and laws. Huckabee has been receiving allot of abuse from the media, I beg everyone here not to believe the news and radio and to research Huckabee themselves, and you will find that he is an uncompromising, Godly conservative man.

     And why isn't Ron Paul supporting the Fair Tax, I would think that he would like it, but Huckabee seems to be the only one interested in kissing the IRS goodbye! Please research that too, it really will work!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

     

    ACBookworm

    " Arf Arf, Aren't I beautiful!
    • Post Points: 35
  • 02-05-2008 7:42 PM In reply to

    Re: Ron Paul

    And why isn't Ron Paul supporting the Fair Tax, I would think that he would like it, but Huckabee seems to be the only one interested in kissing the IRS goodbye!

    Come on... 
    Do not believe the news and radio! Read the matrix I linked to in my previous post ;-)
    http://2008.theati.net/matrix?c=2&c1=3

    Ron Paul leaves Huckabee in the dust when it comes to the income tax - and the economy in general.

     

    http://www.ronpaul2008.com/Prosperity/ 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyT3SBiTbpc 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWfIhFhelm8   (Great content - but would be much better without the soundtrack)

    http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/inflation-tax/
     

    Now some questions for you:

    1. Why doesn't Huckabee care that our entire nation is "taxed" by a fiat currency which is being inflated to oblivion by a private corporation known as the "federal reserve", and that our savings are disappearing as our dollar falls off a cliff?
      It seems like Ron Paul "is the only one interested interested in" staving of the "amero"...

    2. Why does Huckabee take such a weak stance on national sovereignty and personal privacy - naming Richard Hass - a CFR globalist who has published numerous papers on how "State Sovereignty Must be Altered in Globalized Era" - as one of his foreign policy advisers, and supporting the "real id" act while Governor of Arkansas?

    -Aubrey 

     P.S. Another excellent Presidential Candidate Comparison: KnowBeforeYouVote.com

    P.S.S Another suggestion for the forum Admins: Can we pleease have the "Remove Formatting" button in the Tiny MCE Toolbar? It's really handy when compiling a long post from multiple sources :-) 

    AubreyFalconer.com - Aubrey's fundamental law of efficiency: Productivity = Cumulative Talent / involved personnel
    • Post Points: 15
  • 02-05-2008 8:05 PM In reply to

    Re: Ron Paul

    This really is a very hard issue to deal with. I thank you for your sincere discussion, as it really has helped me to re-think some things. When I read Mr. Weathers' blog post, and later Mama did, it got us thinking. This is an issue we will really need to be in prayer about as the elections come closer. I am honestly trying to see this all in it's true light. I discuss these things with other Christian young people, for the purpose of broadening my own, and other's knowledge of the subject, and learning the different views/opinions, hearing both sides, so as to better make a decision. I think that this discussion has accomplished that. :)

    As I stand now, I simply think that a Federal Amendment will not work on the abortion issue. A State Amendment may actually come to pass, as the more local a decision is, the more likely that the will of the people will prevail.

    I do not exactly have all the States Rights, and Constitutional issues straight in my mind yet. (I commend those who do. It takes a lot of research, and sifting through revisionist teachings) I was finally "Reformed" by my cousin only about a year ago. I lived the other 16 years of my life not really understanding, or caring about what the government can or can not do. I had the "America is a great, free Christian nation. What more could you ask for? Be happy!" mindset. :) Now, I am having to sort through what is fact, what is opinion, what is simply an ideal, and what is morally right. If you lean too far to one side, you become like a sheep who follows, and gives it's life to someone else to govern and control. If you lean to far toward the other side, you become too libertarian. Truly, I will be praying that the Lord will clearly reveal His will to me! (Or more importantly, to my Father, as I will be voting as he votes until the day that I vote as my husband votes.)

    When Benjamin Franklin walked out of the room, a lady asked him (Not in exact quotes) "What kind of government did you give us?" He replied "A Republic, if you can keep it" I am afraid that we have not kept it. Our culture is merely clinging to the crumbs of our Godly founding. We are scraping the bottom of a moral foundation, that soon I am afraid, will be overlaid with sand. Completely blotting out any semblance of a Christian nation! I do not say that either side is nescessarily wrong, as they would be if someone would be if they were saying abortion were right.... It is true, that a federal amendment banning abortion is not really provided for in the Constitution. It is also true that the Constitution was made for a people, and nation that was so far removed from the one we live in today. A people that can not govern itself, must be governed. The self-centered, immoral generation around us, can not govern itself. What to do?

    I hope that I have not been at all offensive to anyone during this "discussion". :) It has helped me to go back and look for answers that are sure to come along the Biblical guidelines God has set out for us. :) Though now, I am praying about, and researching this issue, I still support Ron Paul for president. He is the best candidate out there. I disagree with him on very little. Certainly much less then the others in the running. ;)

    ~Sarah~

     

     

    Way down upon the Swanee River,
    Far, far away...

    • Post Points: 25
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