As It Is In Heaven - All Comments

re: Redistribution of Wealth

WesleySonofCornelius — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 07:57:29 GMT

The economy is rough. I think the economy has been rough for some time. However, I believe we were force fed to think by the media and political jargon that our economy was as bad as the depression (or close to it). Unfortunately, I think this thought then led some to justify in trying to 'fix the problem.' But in trying to fix the problem they have just compounded it.

We are no longer in the day when liberal presidents who push and sign horrible legislation still have the respect of a Higher Power and pray (like Roosevelt). All we do now is pass horrible legislation.

We learned today at Oak Ridge National Lab that Secretary Chu has put us federal contrators on a pay freeze to coincide with the civilian federal employee pay freezes. No raises of any kind for the next 2 years. It was a political stunt. The DOE is going to save 2 million dollars with this pay freeze. Compare this to the 3 DOE Energy Hubs that are still in force that run 25 million a year each for a planned 5 years. We at ORNL have one of these 3 Hubs.

It is real sad that Savannah River is laying off that many people. However, they would have had to lay those individuals off if they had not obtained some of the stimulus money last year. Yes, the DOE labs won big off of the stimulus bill.

I believe the federal contrators has a place; however, we have grown way too large and redundant in many areas.

With my pay freeze, I am having to evaluate myself. Do I really trust in the name of the LORD our God, or do I deep down cling to some level trust in chariots and in horses (man's ways)?!

re: Redistribution of Wealth

Bahnsen8 — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 01:27:09 GMT

LOL, yeah, if I was starting at Steeplemedia today, I guess I might sign up as Viret9 or something like that. Things change quickly in life, yes? Busy is good, especially with the economy having left the tracks. Really, the taxation issue is just one important part of what happens when a civil magistrate strays outside of its God-given boundaries. What are your thoughts on the economy? How are things at Oak Ridge? The Savannah River Site is about to lay off 1400 people, if the rumors are correct. What are folks saying in the land of the Big Orange?

re: Redistribution of Wealth

WesleySonofCornelius — Thu, 16 Dec 2010 06:24:37 GMT

Haha ... so not Bait or Benign but Beaten!

I am doing well. I find myself awfully busy these days. But can't complain.

While I am in agreement of the position of God within His People, I have yet to be convinced that the rules and regulations (call it God's law) of God's Kingdom applies to earthly kingdoms.

re: Redistribution of Wealth

Bahnsen8 — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 01:41:39 GMT

Wesley, so good to hear from you again. I do hope you and yours are well these days, resting in His great and unshakeable comfort toward us in Christ our Savior and Lord. Thank you for your interest in this discussion, and as always, thank you for keeping us both focused upon Holy Scripture. I hope we can make some headway together in our Father's Word. Exodus 30: 11 - 16 is a very important Scripture in this discussion. God the King of Israel, ruled from His throne room in the tabernacle/temple. As I have studied this concept I have come to understand the tabernacle/temple as the center of both religious worship of God and civil homage to the King. Jehovah reigned from the tabernacle as both God and King. Hence, the atonement money must not be automatically interpreted only as an ecclesiastical tax. Verse 12 says this tax is taken in conjunction with the census, the counting of the males over age 20, which is an act of the civil magistrate, primarily for the purpose of military readiness. This tax was to be sent to Jerusalem, year after year. Again, remember, God is the King of Israel, the One Who leads them into battle, so they come to Him at His throne to be counted as ready. This is the temple tax referenced in the New Testament (Mt 17:24 - 26), but again, the name temple tax can be misleading. The temple was the seat of God's government in the earth, both ecclesiastical and civil. So, I see the temple tax as God's commanded tax upon all men age 20 and older, meant to be the primary means of funding the activities of the civil sphere. And, note that the tax is defined as half a shekel per man, a fixed amount in a fixed money system, hence the same amount per man per year, unchanging. And, just to emphasize what NOT to do, God says, "The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less." As far as I can tell (tell me if I missed something), there is no other Scriptural command regarding paying a tax to the civil magistrate (if you accept my argument that this is a civil tax). Hence my confidence in saying that God forbids the civil magistrate from instituting an income-based or graduated income-tax. Now, the tithe is income-based and it went to the local priests and Levites for the necessary ecclesiastical and social welfare functions of each locale. Now, in regards to your quote from Hebrews 10:34, if my possessions are wrongly confiscated because I stand up for Christ, like the people referenced in Hebrews 10:32-36, then yes indeed, I will rejoice in loss for Him, which is really always gain. But, I do not see Hebrews 10:34 as a verse to justify Christian silence when their civil magistrates disobey God's Law and implement a graduated income tax. Again, great to interact with you again. I sincerely hope you are well. Please pray for me to be more humble and Christ-like in all my ways. Here is a quote from a great Christian man from the 1500s, Pierre Viret, "If I did not have the conviction that it was God who was pressing it on, I would never enter a controversy with a single person." May you and I, siblings in Christ, move ahead with this spirit. Fondly, B8 (Lord willing, soon to be B10)

re: Redistribution of Wealth

WesleySonofCornelius — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 02:24:36 GMT

Well, hello, Bait ... (or is it Benign?)

"The Bible forbids the civil magistrate from instituting any INCOME-BASED tax plan." Scripture reference, please.

"Certainly, the Bible even more forcefully forbids a GRADUATED income tax." Please give Scripture reference for this one as well.

[And please don't give Scripture refs. that one must extrapolate out to your confident conclusion .. I need clear verses to understand your strong confidence in these teachings]

But while my hunch is that I'll disagree with your use of Scripture, I believe that we both can agree the writer of Hebrews was praising his readers by saying: "you JOYFULLY accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one." (Heb. 10:34)

re: Marriage, a constitutional right?

Matthew Holbrook — Mon, 25 Oct 2010 04:54:53 GMT

For a lively discussion, as you know my views:

1. Does a theocracy presume state involvement if the Church is given authority in this matter?

2. Does the marriage rite (performed by Church or state) merely "find" or "declare" that God has brought two people together in biblical union or does the ceremony/earthly authority "wed" the two?

3. If the Church is granted authority to declare marriage, what should faithful Christians do if an heretical particular church declares holy an unbiblical union between two (or more)?

B8: A deep artery here. Few in visible Christendom consider this topic as part of their faith.

Inspired. Inerrant. Our only Rule in Faith and Practice.

re: Sandal Straps

Matthew Holbrook — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 05:42:12 GMT

We are but dust upon those sandals, ready and rightly to be shaken off, apart from His Righteousness! We are bound to the True Vine by Himself, through the Holy Spirit, to the Father now and forevermore. Why? Because He deemed it meet and right so to do. All glory, honor, power, and majesty to God alone! His Grace surpasseth all understanding.

re: Semper Plene Radix response to satanic murders at Fort Hood

Bahnsen8 — Mon, 14 Dec 2009 04:48:33 GMT

G&T: Thanks for your kind response. God is not the source of evil, AND He is absolutely sovereign over all events. Using words like "allow" in contrast to "foreordained will" does not make any sense to me. God sees all things, yes? Before they occur, yes? So, if God could stop something and He does not, then I see no difference between "allow" and "foreordained will." Nevertheless, God is Holy, Holy, Holy. -----Regarding Deuteronomy 28, this text is addressed to the nation of Israel, revealing promised blessings for obedience to God's Law and promised curses for disobedience to God's Law. While the principles in this text may have application to personal soteriology, the main thrust of the text is directed toward a nation in covenant with God: Israel. (I fully agree with your statement that our only hope is to rest in the Father's love. I hope you also believe that as our lives are transformed, we will live according to all of His commands in every sphere of life.) In Christ, B8.

re: Obama's Lincoln Impersonations Continue

Matthew Holbrook — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 06:27:00 GMT

Should we end rigorous debate from boredom?

If not, perhaps we should answer for this discussion:

a.) What is our definition of theonomy?

b.) May a viewpoint/interpretation predominantly (if not exclusively) supported by covenantal theologians be biblical in light of their hermeneutic?

Agreement upon these points may foster fruitful communication.

re: Semper Plene Radix response to satanic murders at Fort Hood

Grace and Truth — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 07:53:56 GMT

I agree the murders were Satanic. However, how does Satan perform the foreordained will of the Father? I believe in God's absolute sovereignty. It is one thing to say that God allowed evil to happen and another to say that it was his foreordained will or desire. I don't think you are trying to imply that though. Since Satan is the father of evil would that not make The Father implicit in the evil as well? Absolutely not. His sovereignty is displayed in that he has the power to make the crooked straight, to take what Satan meant for evil and use it for His divine purpose which is good.

Other than that it is a shame what has become of our country but I am confident in God's love for His own and His creation.

I do also want to clarify the Gospel here where I see it and where it spoke to me. It is impossible to obey God's law. Thank you for the word in Deuteronomy because it reveals my own covenant breaking and my need for Jesus. I love the Rembrandt paint on your blog. It reminds me of my true condition without Jesus and the need to preach the gospel to myself daily because it is our nature to either be drifting from the father through Orthadox/Reformation moralism or outright licentiousness. Thank God we have the true older brother in Jesus who comes after us when we have strayed and gently brings us back in to communion with the father. I can't help but think that what Deut 28 is describing is what the younger and older brother must have gone through and what we go through when we try to control God and gain his favor through having "right theology" and obedience to the law or by just rejecting his Lordship altogether.

The only hope we have as humans is to daily rest in the Joy of the Father's indescribable prodigal love for us and ponder the infinite cost of his sacrifice. I pray that as we ponder the mystery of his sacrifice and love and the lavish feast the father has prepared, our hearts will be continually broken and our lives transformed by his love. Then maybe we might be fit to bring this message of hope to the postmodern culture that can ( and rightly so) hardly distinguish moralistic "Christianity" from Islam.

In Christ,

G&T

re: Obama's Lincoln Impersonations Continue

Bahnsen8 — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 01:44:29 GMT

You hate freedom.

re: Obama's Lincoln Impersonations Continue

WesleySonofCornelius — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 18:51:34 GMT

You hate Lincoln.

re: A Sabbath Moment with Bahnsen

WesleySonofCornelius — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:39:41 GMT

Your answer seems to simple: "only apply the Bible's principles where the Bible instructs us to apply them."

So let me give you a scenario. I am a scientist. No book in the Bible was intended to be a science book. Therefore, if I use the Bible as a science book, I am in danger of using it how it was not intended. This does not mean that good science is not contained within Scripture. Also, great science has come from men who either rejected a personal God or rejected God completely.

Taking this scenario let us move to a more challenging profession: a legislator. Is the Bible intended for a political theory textbook? Once again, I am not asking if good political theory is contained within Scripture. Right to bear arms, freedom of speech, and trial by jury does not come out of the Scripture explicitly. Furthermore, some of our good constructs in the US are due to men like John Locke. Just as in science, a nonChristian can introduce good theory.

In an article by Gentry, he says that theonomists do not believe the Bible to be exhaustively specific. I am not asking if the Bible is exhaustive in the civil realm, I am asking if the intent of God's Law (or God's Word in general) was for forming national governments? Or was God's Law intended for one "government" only? Therefore, if we use it for forming a specific type of national government and it was not intended for such, are we at danger of misusing Scripture?

I have a feeling you are going to misunderstand my distinctions because of our differences in understanding the Church and State issue as well as our differences in how we view the covenants.

re: A Sabbath Moment with Bahnsen

Bahnsen8 — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:56:21 GMT

To say that God "cannot" is inaccurate. God WILL NOT violate His holiness. This in no way compromises his ALMIGHTY nature. Thus, the premise of your question is not true, so the question is misleading. Nevertheless, I will answer the question. We should only apply the Bible's principles where the Bible instructs us to apply them. This is the concept of rightly dividing God's Word. And, God's Law is part of God's Word. Not all of God's Word is Law, but all of God's Word is to govern all of life. Law is different than precept and pattern, which are also to be our guide in life.

re: A Sabbath Moment with Bahnsen

WesleySonofCornelius — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:31:02 GMT

I agree the problem lies with us not the Word of God. And the Word of God is never insufficient: Hallelujah. When we use the Word how it was not intended, it is insufficient because it is no longer God's Word.

So I have a question. God is all-powerful and all-knowing; however, there are things God cannot do. He cannot sin, for example. Using this line of thought, is there things the Bible cannot do? Or are there things the Bible should not be used for?